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Dec 20, 2011, 06:42 AM // 06:42
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#261 | |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Quote:
For the third room, I usually make a beeline along the edge of the room and into the corner (making sure to keep clear of the patrols along the way). While the patrols won't chase you here, being in the corner isn't enough to guarantee a safe clear. Flag your #1-3 heroes back along the wall - I put one against the wall to my left, one against the back wall, and the last one right in the corner. Then, flag your remaining heroes up a little bit further - you want them far enough apart that they won't get caught in AoE from Rage Titans with the heroes along the wall, but still close enough to the wall that their aggro won't draw extra Titans when you go to pull. When you do pull, just be very patient and make sure your aggro bubble isn't going to trigger multiple groups. If that means waiting to pull, wait. I haven't gotten through the fifth room yet (mostly due to some stupid pulls on my own part), but I have found some success with similar tactics to the third: specifically, take your time, flag defensively, and don't overaggro. I haven't had a whole lot of time to play with tactics in the fifth room, but as you learn the way the mobs move, it definitely gets easier to avoid unpleasant situations. So really, the best way to go about it is to just keep practicing and not get frustrated. As long as you're learning something each time, you're making progress. For reference, I'm using a Wastrel's Panic Mes as my main, so as an Imbagon, you'll probably be able to handle it even more easily than me once you get the hang of Foundry. If you're trying other parts of DoA, Ravenheart Gloom makes for a fairly easy clear (just be ready for the big mob after you talk to the Warden of Whispers, and pull the Darknesses one at a time when you're fighting the boss, or you'll get swarmed). The Stygian Veil is harder (be ready for the long swarm of large mobs at the beginning) but not as hard as Foundry, so again, you can probably handle it with practice and patience. Some tips about your team build, as well: -Discord is okay, but it's not fantastic damage output, especially since you're not running an AP build and can't personally apply conditions or hexes to targets. AoE armor-ignoring damage is usually the best way to go, which is why Mesmers and Rits are so popular nowadays. It's ultimately your decision, but I'd recommend dropping Discord from your bars and maybe swapping one of the Necros for another Mesmer (Razah, since you're already running two). -The SoS seems like it's not really working to its full potential. The Channeling component is there, but besides that, it's solely a hex-removal tool with the chance to res every now and then. Part of the utility of the SoS is how much time the hero has to do other things once the spirits go up and Painful Bond/Ancestor's Rage is on recharge. It casts SW once every few seconds and then recharges with Spirit Siphon if it needs to. As it stands, your SoS has a lot of downtime, since the only other thing it can do in that space is remove hexes. If you drop a Discord Necro, I'd recommend moving the other Restoration heals here. Mend Body and Soul, Spirit Light, and PwK will be plenty. Also, swap Painful Bond for Ancestor's Rage. PB isn't really worth it if the only offensive spirits you have are SoS and Bloodsong (I'm assuming that you're running the ST Prot build at the top of the page, and not the offensive ST listed further down). The SoS will cast ARage on your minions for a nice spike along with SW. -The ST Prot might also benefit from some tweaking. Running Shelter, Displacement, and Union all together sometimes causes problems, since the hero isn't always smart enough to refresh ST before the charges run out. Then you can wind up with one or more of your defensive spirits on recharge, while your party gets smacked around in the meantime. If you want to go ST, I'd say drop Union from the bar, as well as Armor of Unfeeling (which heroes don't always use efficiently). You've then got a variety of options to fill in the gaps with. Since you seem concerned with hexes, one option is to spec into Inspiration Magic for Hex Eater Signet, which doubles as e-management. Drain Enchantment can fill in the second slot (serving, again, as more e-management), or another skill of your choice (DE might be helpful, though, since I don't see any other forms of enchantment removal in your build). If you'd rather go along a safer route, you can just put the Remove/Smite Hex combo you're using on your other professions here. ST, BoC, and SoC should still prove sufficient for keeping energy reserves up. Really, most support skills can work on the ST, since it's not a big deal to drop a point from Spawning Power (as long as it's still at least 12) and pick up 6 extra attribute points to spend on Curses, Smiting Prayers, Inspiration, whatever. As a final option, you can avoid skills from other professions entirely and run EFGJack's variant of the ST Rit, found here: OACiAyk8gNtehzjJ1ca6MtmA -For your Dom Mesmer, I'd avoid WD. Even with three e-management skills, it's still probably going to put some strain on their resources, and WD only really contributes conditional damage. As a player, it's okay, since you can use it more wisely and focus on keeping that enemy from using skills, but I wouldn't risk it on a hero without a BiP in my party. Drop it and GoLE, and then run Shatter Hex and a res instead. FoMF is okay, but you might also want to experiment with Death Pact Signet. If one of your heroes is dying so often that DPS's drawback actually becomes a drawback, you might want to re-evaluate your builds and playstyle. DPS casts faster, returns more energy to the target, and doesn't force your healers to worry about bringing two characters at half health back out of the danger zone (instead, they can focus on keeping your other party members, who are presumably under a good deal of pressure, alive). That's most of the advice I can give right now - a lot of your success will come down to what you decide to do with the Discord heroes. In general, though, I'd say less defense, more offense. Imbagon + ST Prot + Minions + Panic + Illusion + Spirits + Curses + Dual Resto heals is already a massive amount of defense, and probably a lot more than you need. If you drop some of it and focus on killing things more efficiently, your team will be able to alleviate pressure on itself more quickly, and it'll probably balance out in the end. |
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Dec 20, 2011, 07:13 AM // 07:13
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#262 | |
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Site Contributor
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atlanta
Guild: [LIFE]
Profession: P/
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Quote:
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Dec 20, 2011, 02:09 PM // 14:09
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#263 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2008
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Then as long as that someone is successful at whatever he's trying to do, every and any build is the "best". Kind of pointless, if you ask me.
Anyway ... Quote:
One single mistake can screw up a run, so you have to learn to not make that single mistake. There's no other way around it, unfortunately. You could bring consumables to smoothen any mistakes (I've not used them for quite a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if you can survive a double aggro with them). Res Scrolls as well. But otherwise be prepared to fail. I'm not sure which build you are referring to when you mentioned my build. If you mean the one with myself as Searing Flames with a "They're on Fire!" Paragon and a Ranger ... well ... that build is, frankly, pretty terrible. It was a glorious innovation right when 7H was new, and it is to my knowledge the first build ever to clear Foundry HM with Elementalist primary, but from the vantage point of 9 months on it leaves a lot to be desired. I've been putting some standard hero builds through trial by fire in Foundry HM, and although I never finished, I'm fairly convinced that with enough precision play it can be done. Especially if you're in NM, use standard builds. Another thing to note about my builds is that I'm a highly offensive player, and will happily sacrifice defense to squeeze as much offensive power out of a build as possible, compensating for wipes with better play before changing the build. If you're using or adapting my builds for general play (not this SF build though, this one is heavily specialized to Foundry HM), you might want to slot in more defense. Certainly having a ST Ritualist and an Ineptitude Mesmer will make doing HM Foundry easier. You sacrifice some killing speed, but completion is more important. If you feel you need Armour of Unfeeling, by all means use it! Otherwise solutions to: Flagging your heroes too far to the back - cancel all hero flags while calling a target to attack. For sure, only do this if you are confident you will not overaggro. Otherwise you risk wiping. If you are not confident you will not overaggro, wait for the mob to go back to wherever it was patrolling and move heroes forward before trying another pull. Pulling mobs but they run away instead of fighting - this can be because of a couple of things. If they don't even attack you but just start running away, chances are it's a very long patrol at the end of its patrol range, and you've been trying to pull it. The aggro gets a little buggy then, and they just run away when you hit them. In this case you should reset their patrol (they'll go back to patrolling after your pull) and try again as normal. Otherwise chances are they've hit the end of their aggro range and are moving back. In this case you either continue to hit them and see if they can pull further (sometimes they do), or you flag heroes a bit closer and try again. Dying - in general, watch your party bars. Hero deaths are not a good indicator because it's entirely possible that a hero gets spiked out by "accident" (e.g. 5 Charr Stalkers aiming Dual Shot at him simultaneously and he dies). Instead look at your party bars. If you are dying, the party bars will be moving up and down a lot. You cannot stay alive indefinitely when this is happening, and you should hit "Fall Back!" and run. Another good indicator: you've lost most or all of your minions. In harder areas you have little time between beginning to take damage and actually dying, so not much of a window to disengage there. Finally I don't know if you've been trying it, but do not fight the Titans in the area immediately between the second and third rooms. Head to the far corner; you can aggro mobs there one by one. You might also find it better to disable the Animate spells at this point because the minions can overaggro and you have no space to retreat. In the fifth room, everything is relatively straightforward aggro techniques. If you can pass the third and fourth rooms, it's a clear (but not easy) path to the Fury. Good luck 
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Dec 20, 2011, 04:17 PM // 16:17
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#264 | |
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Pre-Searing Cadet
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
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Dec 20, 2011, 08:37 PM // 20:37
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#265 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Ah, my bad about Razah - I swapped over from Shelter to just an MM Prot a while back, and I forgot the triple Mes and double Rit setup doesn't work without Mercs. =P
If you want to keep Shelter, you've got a few different options for the rest of your setup. One option would be to replace a Discord Resto for a RoJ/UA Smiter. The hero packs single heals (via Divine Favor), at least one party heal, hex and condition removal, a bit of damage, and a mini-prot in the form of Reversal of Damage, and then depending on your choice of RoJ or UA, a powerful spike or instant res on top of all that. RoJ will help boost your offense considerably (though it does cause scatter in HM), while the UA is better at healing, and lets you replace a res one of your other heroes. If the Smiter sounds appealing, I'd recommend trying the RoJ variant first and seeing how the team works with it. If you're having an issue keeping alive, try the UA variant instead. I haven't played with a Paragon main, but since you've got minions as well as your own physical damage, another option would be to change one of the Discords into a Curses Resto Necro. Giving it spells like Mark of Pain or Barbs (be careful with the cast time on this one), perhaps with Pain of Disenchantment as the elite (since, as noted before, you don't have any enchantment removal) will pump up your DPS up while still keeping the Rit heals intact. You've got one of your Discords with some Curses spells already, so he seems like a good candidate for conversion. I might drop Shadow of Fear and Recovery from the bar if you went this route. SoF isn't a bad skill, but it's expensive and, in my experience, not strictly necessary. Recovery, on the other hand, isn't worth a spot on the bar. You've already got a couple copies of MBaS, which removes a condition for each spirit in earshot and has a short cooldown. That alone is already massive condition removal and should be more than enough for the team. Play around with the Curses skills you bring and see what works best to fill in these slots, whether that means MoP, SoF, Barbs, Rip Enchantment, or whatever. I'd personally either run this build or the Smite Monk, but not both together (too much healing/support). For the Discord Prot, one option would be to try tweaking it into an AoTL Minion Bomber Prot hero. It's already most of the way there, but dropping Discord for AoTL will let the MB maintain a minion army more easily, as well as let the hero hit 19 Death Magic (with Masochism), which means slightly stronger minions and more damage from spells. You could then fit some extra protection by dropping Smite Hex for Protective Spirit, which is already an amazing skill on its own and which provides excellent backup defense when Shelter goes down. Depending on the rest of your team build, you can then choose to either keep Remove Hex or drop it for Shield of Absorption, Blood of the Master, or Dark Bond. SoA is a really nice prot for when you're tanking lots of rapid damage, and can quickly reduce incoming attacks to 0 damage. Even though it doesn't last long, it can relieve a lot of pressure while it's up. Blood of the Master helps keep your minion army alive between fights, and while it may seem counterproductive on a bomber (you want minions to die for DN), it makes sure that minions can actually reach the target before exploding, increases the damage they can sponge, and lets them take advantage of SW/ARage for longer. Dark Bond doesn't require any investment in Blood Magic, and it's quite useful if you find the MB dying frequently. It'll also indirectly speed up the rate at which minions explode for DN. Keeping the MB from dying also means you don't have to worry about your minions suddenly turning hostile in a tight situation. What you do with the last Discord is up to you. Try out different classes and see what works. Smite Monks, Command Paragons, Orders Necros and Invoke Eles are all possible additions (all of which you can find builds for on these forums or on PvX), or you could play around with your own combinations. Best of luck! |
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Jan 04, 2012, 07:04 AM // 07:04
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#266 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Nov 2009
Profession: E/
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@ jeydra, yeah i was referring to your SF build. it didn't have enough defense and protection for my play style.
after 2 months of frustration, i finally beat foundry nm and killed mallyx as well. i was desperate and didn't want to be sorry on wiping near the end, so i only used an armor of salvation, essence of celerity and green rock candy when i started to kill black beast + fury. for the other areas of the subbosses and mallyx, i didn't use any consumable. in the third foundry room, i knew about flagging heros to the north farthest right corner. the problem was with bad luck and pulling when aggroing other patrols occurred (even though i was in the corner). with luck, i went through the fourth and fifth room. after clearing the patrols in fifth room, i got the snakes and went to the gates where the black beast spawned. after that was taken down, i tried to lure the snakes in between the gates to make them stay there. i flagged heros behind the gates and tried to pull the generals. though, somehow the fury also came after me too =_=. the mobs didnt move past the snakes thankfully (though i don't know if that made a difference since some of their attacks are ranged?). the fury finally died. i wonder if the consumables were what really ensured the victory.. oh well. anyway, with my hero setup, i think i was overly defensive with some things. i didn't care about time completion but still wanted something that would get it done. i forgot their skills exactly but it was something like this: my bar E/Mo : Searing Flames, Pve skills, including "by ural's hammer" + rebirth. i know 2 resses on a bar are *facepalm*, but i had rebirth as a back up in case all heros died instead of me. ( i didn't have any ress scrolls). ural's hammer helped a lot especially if 2-3 heros go down, they are immediately back up. i really don't like searing flames that much, but i find it more spammable than invoke, i can upkeep energy better and the burning is nice. 1. Me/P: E-surge + stand your ground 2. Me/P: E-surge + stand your ground 3 E/Me: Inept 4. Rt/R: ST spirits + EoE, and a heal 5. Rt: SoS, ancestor's rage, bloodsong + heals 6. Necro Bip, enchantment removal, putrid explosion + heals 7. Monk: UA i think the UA helped a lot with survivability. usually if one hero goes down in a tight spot, it can cause the entire party to weaken significantly. that fast ress with full health and energy helped a lot in regaining the upperhand. now i need to try the underworld with heroes..... =_= |
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Jan 04, 2012, 12:35 PM // 12:35
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#267 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2008
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You _REALLY_ do not want to use that SF build I posted early in this thread. It's not good by today's standards. It has plenty of protection and defense, but it has little offense. That's what's getting you killed: you can't kill them faster than they kill you. That build you used took the defensive core of my build and made it worse; you have no other Searing Flames Eles in the team (= no damage) and no They're On Fire Paragon (= no defense) either. Incidentally you've got quite a bit of subpar skills there. SYG is a big energy sink and no easy to fit on Mesmers, non-primary Ineptitude is flat out bad. Considering you're playing NM, I strongly suggest Invoke Eles replacing the Ineptitude and the BiP. You can give them SYG.
You can avoid a wipe with By Ural's Hammer - just stay out of range of the heroes you don't want to res, and res the rest. Those heroes will go res the ones you left dead, and those will stay alive after 30s. To avoid overaggro in the third room, disable minions, refrain from using Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support and do not move much from the corner. You should not run out of energy with Invoke if you play one yourself - try this bar: Invoke [E] Chain Lightning Intensity Air Attunement Glyph of Lesser Energy Elemental Lord Ebon Battle Standard of Honour Something (I vaguely remember I had Lightning Orb there, but don't remember for sure) UW takes a lot more micro than DoA, gl with it! Last edited by Jeydra; Jan 04, 2012 at 12:45 PM // 12:45.. |
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Feb 07, 2012, 09:06 PM // 21:06
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#268 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Guide - The Foundry with heroes (without flagging) + Builds
Hello  i will somewhat revive this thread. With a little story in the foundry and some builds. Well, i have been trying to beat the Foundry (the last area i had't completed in DoA) for about 2 weeks now, i kept on trying different hero combinations, different builds posted around here, nothing worked tbh, not EFG Jack's, not the pvx builds, nothing ... i'm probably a mega-noob at using the builds posted by others, and i'm very bad at flagging, i sometimes even died in the 3rd room, but most of the times i failed in the 5th, either because of the 6 misery, the beast, or i was simply wiped by Fury's Group. I was against using consets, i always went for a clean run. So after numerous builds and tests, and some days & hours wasted trying to get it done and failing miserably. I managed to make myself a non-flagging build, because as stated earlier : i suck at flagging. I simply rushed everything, including fury's group. The only thing i did not rush, was the 3rd room, where i flagged all my heroes right next to the entrance, and took the groups 1 by 1 (i didn't even bother going into the corner). So the non-flagging build is : Player - Me (mesmer) : OQhkAsC8gFK0JgFXTgpzFwu4t4FD Heroes : Olias N/Rt IV Healer : OAhjUoGYIP1sjaGbYKNncjzLGA Razah Rt ST : OACjAyhDJPYTr3jLcCNtmOzLGA Xandra Rt/Me Esurge Healer : OAWjIshMpNngpnpLHMEkmTuhJA Master N/Me Inept Curses : OAVDEshnSvAIgrA5ZkA2BfCVVA Livia N/Me Blood Panic : OAVDIMp2N0gpnpLHMEaCDtqK Gwen & Norgu 2x Me/P Keystone "Support" : OQljAwDqJO/g8spjrFjfA80aMA OK, the builds are definitely not perfect, after completing it, i thought it would have been definitely easier with -Razah going as Me/Rt and Xandra as ST Rit. -Xandra's build had 9 Spawning Power - because my staff had that, and i wanted the bonuses. but i never used spawning, so maximizing Domination and Resto would improve the build -most heroes did not have 20/20 staffs or wands. Short recap Pros -no flagging required -in the 5th room i sometimes took 2 groups at a time -the 6 misery guys were a joke, they died almost instantly -fury's group didn't manage to get anyone to under half of the max hp Cons (you won't believe this )-be very careful to margonite groups, i almost wiped against those several times (so this means, you may be wiped in the 1st room - lol) Overall : the run was fast and easy, the only dangerous places are ... margonites  PS : i'm not saying it's non-flagging proof (i tested it on 3 runs, and didn't fail), you should try some minimal flagging, if you feel something is not going right. Micro-ing the heroes is not necessary, but again, if you feel something is not going as planned, it can probably help by activating the ST rits and the keystones EDIT : it beats mallyx as well, i've just tested it. same problem : margonites are a pain in the ... also, recommended, disable all hex skills before mallyx and instead of flesh of my flesh on the rt heroes, add gaze of fury. Last edited by MerFargo; Feb 07, 2012 at 10:52 PM // 22:52.. |
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Jun 11, 2013, 08:08 AM // 08:08
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#269 |
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Pre-Searing Cadet
Join Date: Jun 2013
Profession: W/
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Serious thread necro, but MerFargo's hero team build deserves it.. Have just soloed City of Torc'qua and Ravenheart Gloom using this, and probably worse equipment than his heroes had
Bumping mostly for my own sake to keep the thread alive while I'm finishing DoA! |
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Jul 24, 2013, 04:41 PM // 16:41
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#270 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is MerFargo's build designed for NM or HM?
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Jul 24, 2013, 10:13 PM // 22:13
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#271 |
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Pre-Searing Cadet
Join Date: Jun 2013
Profession: W/
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It's a strat for normal mode.
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